Sunday, November 5, 2017

a paddling gone very very wrong

 FL has made a very interesting comment regarding my insecurities. He wrote:
If you can maintain the joy and wonder - without the insecurity - it can be a fairy tale that lasts forever.  
Before I met Gregory, of the many problems I had at that time, being too strict, too severe or too harsh as a domme has never been a problem I had had.

Being a domme and being able to "feel" the other person was something I was really good at. 
(Ok, it might be that the guys I spanked were lying to me... But I doubt that.)

I am not a heavy physical player. Meaning: I get turned on not by the physical element of being in control, but more by the mental element of it. That´s one of the reasons I was not afraid to be too hard on a man. 

I dont need/crave a lot of physical dominance to get my dominant needs met. E.g: I once told Gregory  ("just because I can...") not to watch a certain american football game on tv. A game he had really wanted to see. But he complied and missed that game. And even today, just thinking at it, makes me smile and turns me on. There was zero physical contact involved. Him not watching that game made me happy on a very deep level.
The underlying questions I was really silently asking him at that time were: "Am I really important  to you? Are you willing to suffer for me? Do you care about me?"
Him not watching that game helped me to believe that he did indeed think that I am quite ok ;-)

With Gregory and I, right from the start everything was different. One of the first spankings I gave him,  actually a paddling, went very wrong.

We were in a very nice hotel room, it was the evening of a great day, full of laughter and joy.  He had brought a paddle in the hotel and  he had told me that he can and has taken quite intense physical pain.

I am still cringing just thinking about the following. I tried to forget it for many months.

He was on the bed, I paddled him, he was quiet, did not move, did not say much.

And immediately after we left the hotel to enter the city night life, when we were on the street for about one minute, he got into a yelling contest with a guy selling food on the streets. Gregory completely lost it. The guy was an idiot, yes, but he was just a random street food seller, selling highly overpriced stuff to people. I could not care about him less. The events unfolded so quickly, I had troubles following the action. The two guys yelled and cursed at each other in ways I have rarely seen or heard in my life. I was just standing there, I did not even try to stop Gregory. The emotions were too raw and deep.

Somehow the two guys were able to not beat each other up  and Gregory and I walked away.

Gregory and I had a talk at the next street corner. I asked him what just happened. I understood that the street food guy was not the real source of anger for Gregory. And Gregory told me in uncertain terms that I had been too hard with the paddle, that I dont know what I am doing, that he fears about his safety with me, that he cant and wont let me paddle him again.  

(A day or two earlier I had caned him, but he did not like the amateurish way I used the cane. So he tried to teach me while I was caning him. I had told him: "You cant teach me WHILE we are in a scene. It destroys the scene/energy".)

And so, now on that street corner, he said to me: "I would have told you that the paddling is too hard, but you were very clear the other day that you dont want me to teach you. That´s why I complied and let you do your thing. I submitted to you. It was not good for me though."

It was all a big mess.

I just read the following comment on Dan´s blog : 

Even if we ask for more or harder, it can be difficult for the wife to gauge just how hard to deliver. She can judge by his reaction as to whether it's hard enough but it is difficult for her to judge how to ramp it up.

Anyway, I was the domme, I was in charge, and he felt terrible.

Not much to say in my defense but that I am very sorry and that I never intended to hurt him. 


  1. Tina,

    I can't help but cringe when I read this post, just as I cringed when reading your experience at the pub. I know that this is a long past event, but I do hope that communication lines are more open now.

    There was a middle ground to these events that could have been taken that wasn't him topping from the bottom or remaining silent and having it end up miserable. e.g. using a Green/Yellow/Red or a numerical pain scale at the start for you to be able to gauge the intensity of your blows.

    Just remember that our mistakes are supposed to be things that we learn from to ensure they don't happen again. This is the more beneficial path than letting them haunt our insecurities forever.

    Take care.

    1. yes,Fur, I did cringe too. Both times. Communication seems not to be our strength...

    2. I have faith that you will be able to find a way to communicate when things are important. Sometimes trying not to hurt someone's feelings results in greater hurt later on. Often being direct and clear is the best path even if it isn't very comfortable at the start.

      Take care.

    3. Thanks, that´s good advice, I think I will do that from now on.
      And: Thanks for your support.

  2. I have to control myself not to go off on a rant at Gregory *deep breath*.

    Firstly I'm glad you are past it and everything is good with both of you. And thank you for sharing. I'm sure it was very difficult.

    It's clear that you were both inexperienced and that your communication was terrible, but the reason it makes me angry is because of the way HE behaved.

    People talk about trust in BDSM, but the talk is almost always one way: that the sub has to trust their dom. And yes, of course that's true. But trust the OTHER way is just as vital and people don't talk about that enough.

    I need to trust my sub to actually submit to my dominance, I need to trust my sub to tell me what's going on with him, I need to trust him to safeword if he needs to, I need to trust him to be willing and able to work through issues with me if I make a mistake etc.

    The first time, it seems like you got it wrong and he presumably did what he thought was the best thing in trying to show you in the moment. You told him that didn't work for you. You were both hurt and upset. People make mistakes and it's totally understandable, that kind of thing can really shake you up. Best case, you both learn a difficult but valuable lesson and discuss how to do better next time.

    Except it seems the learning and the discussing didn't happen.

    The second time, though, he passive aggressively set you up for failure and then blamed you for it, and that makes me livid. As fur sissy said, the choice for him wasn't between 'give you training' (which he knows doesn't work for you) and 'just taking it' (which is what he chose).

    There were a myriad of BETTER choices that he didn't take and then he blamed you for the entire situation in a way that seriously sounds like he had been harbouring this resentment for ages, and that's ugly behaviour. The obvious choice for him was to call 'yellow' or 'red' when it became too much and then to be sweet to each other in the aftermath and talk about what was going on.

    If I'm generous, I would assume that he just didn't have the experience to know better, but his 'oh I've taken so much in the past' claim and the blaming afterwards belies that assumption.

    I'm sorry, but he behaved like an arse.

    I know you love him and I know all of this is really intimate and emotional and difficult and I am being quite harsh on him. It's mainly because the *blaming* thing is a fear that I think many many dominants have, and it’s destructive and unfair.

    Maybe you are never playing with any kind of impact again because of these experiences, but if you do, that open and clear discussion well beforehand needs to happen.

    Best, Ferns

    1. I understand your point. And I can say: yes, it was super difficult for me. It has triggered insecurity and embarassment, and humiliation in me. In blogging about it I am trying to free myself from the feeling of failure I am still feeling.

      I did not see his outburst in the street coming at all. I dont think I did something wrong. My intentions were pure. And I think that I had triggered some stuff in him, stuff that has got nothing to do with me.

      But I do think that the fact that I so misjudged the situation falls back on me and my ability as a domme. It was my job as a domme to make sure he does not "really" get hurt. And I failed in doing that.

      Yes, you are right, it was super passive aggressive of him. I did not realize it at that time, but I do now. I tend to not see passive aggressive behavior when it is addressed towards me. I once, not related to Gregory, even bought a book called: Living with the passive aggressive man.

      And: No, I have no fucking intention of playing with impact again. In that 2 or 3 days, over a year ago, my self- esteem in that matter has profoundly been destroyed. I actually stopped watching caning porn, because it only triggers feelings of "You are doing it wrong" in me.

  3. As a note (wow, this is getting long, I have ALL THE THOUGHTS), some things I've done in the past with new experiences or toys:

    1. If the sub has experience, have him show me what to do. No headspace, no D/s, not ‘playing’ (though it should be fun and sweet), just 'right, show me how to use this thing'. I learnt a lot of my skills from experienced subs.

    2. If it's a new toy, have a practice session. Again, no headspace, no D/s, just 'get over there, I'm going to try this thing out'. Lots of talking: 'how does that feel?' / 'scale of 1-10' / 'can I go harder?' / 'is that thing wrapping?'/ ‘does faster feel better?’ / ‘do you prefer fast and light or slow and heavy?’ etc

    3. The first time I play with a new toy or a new sub (AFTER doing the above if relevant), I'm not trying to reach for anything. We are both learning what it feels like. So that means lots of checking in 'how are you doing there, baby?' and stopping well before he wants to (i.e. leaving him wanting more). There will be plenty of 'next times' where I can push, but not the first time.

    Anyway, I know it was in the past, and the above may be entirely irrelevant, I just hate how it played out for you. I hope you are well and the both of you are happy.

    Best, Ferns

    1. Ferns, thanks for your input. As always much appreciated. :-)

    2. My reaction is maybe a bit superfluous because most already have been said.
      Both a domme and submissive are responsible for what happens. Communication is not just important, it is a key factor. When a sub's limits is by far exceeded a sub should mention this because a Domme is not a mind-reader. An experienced domme may be able to read her sub's body-language. How ever the way Gregory did this is rejectable. I married about 40 years ago a completely vanilla woman. in the ninetees she became a 'converted vanilla' and she started spanking me. One of the main important things was to push up her self confidence. At first she was scared to hurt me. i however praised her saying she did so wonderfully well and after our weekly spanking I gave her a bouquet of red roses and thanked her to show her my gratitude. She felt happy and valued for it and her self confidence grew. If I wanted her to improve certain things I said 'you did great.. however if you would have done .... it would be absolutely fabulous. However making negative remarks oes not work, because it would have lead to nothing, just destroy her self confidence which would be a major obstacle in our further developent.


    3. Thanks, appie.
      My domme self-confidence is really gone since these events.

  4. That paddling incident was 100% on Gregory, not you. He was the experienced player, he told you he was good with intense pain, he knew you were unfamiliar with his limits.
    Physical play is less important to you than mind play and I totally get that but sex does require at least some physicality. Talk first, establish what works. I know it makes it seem like it loses a lot of spontaneity but you are, after all, a professional negotiator. You know how important it is, to avoid future misunderstandings.
    Don't lose your confidence, Miss Tina.

    1. FL, at least one guy, namely you, calls me Miss ;-)
      Btw. he DID clean up that table from the post a few months ago. I was super happy and touched when I entered his house and saw that he had done exactly what I wanted.

    2. I had European parents; I would address you as Miss Tina even without you being a Domme, until invited by you to do otherwise. :)
      That's great about the table. Progress!

    3. lol, yes, step by step :-) The really awesome thing is: I am really into him. I love his body, I love what he does in life, I love his family members, I love that he is in my life :-)

  5. Thank God somebody had the courage to discuss an incident like this. Good for you, Tina.

    I agree with the people who posted about using safewords, especially as you two were just getting to know each other. However, many in the DD sphere (as opposed to BDSM) seem to be vehemently opposed to them because the punishment is not "real" if you can safeword. Dan, whom you quoted, is one of them. He also rejects the notion of "limits" in DD. Others allow safewords for things like a medical injury, but not for excessive pain. The pro I see is one of those people.

    The fact of the matter is that there is some point where the intensity and/or duration exceed what is safe or ensures the physical and emotional well-being of the spankee. Where that point is can vary drastically for different people. It can also vary at different times according to his or her health and emotional state.

    People have very different reactions to being spanked, paddled, and caned. The pro I see has told me how I am very difficult to read. As it gets worse and worse, I tend to go quiet -- like Gregory did. I do that for a number of reasons, but primarily because I begin using meditation or dissociation techniques to cope with it.

    If people reject safewords or the notion of "limits" (and by that I don't just mean limits as to what will be done to someone, but limits in terms of how much pain is too much pain), something is bound to go wrong. Here, it ended up in resentment that exploded during an interaction on the street.

    Anyway, he did seem to set you up somewhat here, and anyone reading this blog knows that your intentions are the best. So, this was clearly a communication/inexperience(with each other) issue and nothing malicious. However, kudos to you for illustrating what can happen if limits aren't respected, which cannot happen without good communication.

    Anyway, good for you for providing a compelling example.


    1. Thanks for your input, James. I will probably reply to your comment in a new blog post.

  6. I've been away so just saw this discussion. I agree with those who suggest use of the safe words because it helps establish trust. I don't think the problem was so much topping from the bottom, although I have had that happen a lot, as the part of dom/sub relationships that implies that a sub should usually get a bit more than he or she expected. These are sensitive relationships with which we are playing, so these kinds of occurrences are likely to happen. It sounds like you have worked it out with your man and as always, I truly admire your ability to maintain your reason during tempestuous situations.


    1. Thanks, Leslie. Good to hear from you. :-)