Saturday, November 16, 2019

dream versus reality

1. Honesty
I have always been honest here on the blog. The blog chronicles my love life in  the last almost 10 years. I do believe that the beauty of my blog and of my interaction with the readers is that we are not sharing fantasies but sharing our life.

I feel a bit vulnerable sharing the following stuff with you, but I think it is an important part of my kinky journey.

For me, the interesting and hot factor of this thing we do was always the reality factor. I get turned on when things are real. Real spankings, real tears, real aftercare and real "all is good now".

I was never interested in role play and games. For me, personally, role plays are ridiculous. (Sorry if I sound very judgmental.) They just don`t appeal to me at all. 

I tend to be attracted to the more stoic guys.  Guys who have a huge, soft and tender heart, but hide it under a hard shell. Guys who dont share their feelings openly. (Think of eg Gibbs from the tv show NCIS).

For me, the kink was always a wonderful way to see the sides that the guy usually hides. It gave me the feeling of being special.

Gregory however is not interested in the  "real life" part of the kink. He has told me so years ago. He prefers the fun/game factor of it.

He told me some time ago: "I dont wanna be spanked." I think it was not a general statement. I think it was only related to a day/evening when I had suggested: "hey you, let me spank you?"
His statement of "I dont wanna be spanked" changed something in me though. I realized that all power and control is with him. The elements that I were craving most are no longer in my hands.

I had experienced this with my ex boyfriend, who had suddenly stopped submitting to me. Back then I had tried a million different ways of making him submit to me again, but he never did it again. In hindsight I realize: He was not interested in doing it with me anymore, and there was nothing I could do to make him change his mind ever again.

When Gregory told me: "I dont wanna be spanked" it felt like: It´s game over. There is nothing I can do. I have to just suck it up and accept it.

I did not discuss my feelings with him. because frankly I had realized: There is nothing to discuss left. He is not into it. I am not into "forcing" him. So it (meaning: the kink) wont happen. I dont want him to submit to me out of pity. Or out of a sense of obligation.

I dont think I can change him, I dont wanna change him, and I dont think I can change my preferences either. 

That leads to him and I not having much kink in our life at all anymore.

It took me months to accept that my "kinky dreams" of a F/M domestic discipline relationship wont come to reality.

Our interaction is not kinky now but vanilla. I am still madly in love with him, I touch him constantly, and I know that even my touching him can be very dominant and possessive. And he is fine with that. Thank goodness.


2. Introvert
And on a side note: For me, being in a domestic discipline relationship was never a matter of me being a mean bitch who heartlessly bosses the guy around 24/7. For me, a F/M domestic discipline relationship has always been more of a deep, honest, meaningful, and secret bond between the woman and the man.

In a relationship my tendencies to please the guy are very strong. And sometimes it is very difficult for me to communicate my needs with the guy clearly. Things get especially difficult for me, if my needs collide with the guy`s need. If he is having fun and a good time, it is difficult for me to tell him  e.g. in a restaurant or at a bar: "please let´s go home now". I understand that he must be thinking something along the lines of: "What´s the matter with her? It´s not even 9pm and she wants to leave?!"  

And I dont wanna explain to him or remind him: "Honey, I am an introvert. I sometimes need some time for myself. I need to recharge my batteries. These people around me are draining me. I´d rather go home now and read a book. Please let´s go home now."  I know that Ferns would understand me ;-) but I also know that  I can seem pretty weird to extroverted people.

D/s was just an easy way for me to express my needs. No need for me to explain myself. An easy way for me to feel respected and cared for. I felt empowered and courageous and I felt like: he knows that I am taking good care of him, he trusts me and my decisions. He might not understand why I wanna leave now even though it is only 9pm and the party has only just started, but he comes with me because he knows deep inside his heart that I am not trying to make him miserable but that I have good and valid reasons for my early departure.

On the other hand: in situations where we are two adults on the same eye level, I tend to give in to the man´s needs. I give in until I am reaching a breaking point, and when I then tell him: "I wanna go now", i dont have the energy anymore to explain anything to him and he feels like: "she is no fun and intentionally making my life harder"

For a while I thought: well, maybe life is trying to tell me that it´s time for me to experience the other side. Maybe it is time for me to experience what it feels like to give up control, to submit, to be the one who gets the spanking.

 I suggested to Gregory stuff like: "you know what? I think one of us should get a spanking tonight. It can be either you or me; you can decide ;-)" It did not work out though. Nothing happened.


3. Playpartners
I want Greg to be happy though. And I dont want to limit him in having his needs met, that´s why I basically told him: "If you wanna do some kink activity outside the marriage, just go ahead. But please dont go to a young, beautiful woman, because that would break my heart. I am not ready to share you with a woman."

Me, I am not interested in doing anything kinky with a stranger. Because it does nothing for me. I need an emotional bond with the other person, to really enjoy kink. I need a long foreplay of conversations, laughter, and shared feelings. For me, doing anything outside the marriage is not even interesting.

4. Love
The really good thing is: I am 100% sure that Greg loves me with all of his heart. And I love him with all of my heart. We have overcome a lot in the last years. I am very happy that I found him. We are working on some major projects together and  I am still convinced that he is the greatest guy on earth :-)


69 comments:

  1. Miss Tina, I'm so sorry to read that you're going through such a difficult time. You waited so long to find love, only to have it disappoint you, at least as far as your need for kink goes.
    And those needs are valid. They are part of who you are. Gregory knew this before things ever got serious. You have a right to sexual fulfillment. And yes, he has a right to no longer want kink but it leaves you high and dry.
    I wish I could give you a solution but I suspect yours is a common problem. Except 99.9% of the time it's the woman deciding she no longer wants to domme her man.
    Have you considered counselling? Even if you go alone at first, without even telling Gregory. Do some research and see if there's a kink-friendly counsellor in your area.
    Good luck, Tina. Let us know how it goes.

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    1. Hi FL, always good to hear from you :-)
      I sometimes laugh about my situation, because-as you said- 99,9 % of the time it´s the woman deciding she no longer wants to domme her man. What are the chances of the man telling me "no" and of this happening to me TWICE ;-)

      I will consider seeing a counsellor. But right now it ´s not the right time yet. I am still living in Germany, but this is about to change soon. If things work out as planned I will finally move to the US for good in the very near future.

      Gregory and I are a great couple/team in so many aspects, I am confident that we will somehow find a good solution to everything.

      Delete
  2. This male fantasy, dream, desire was for a female to spank me. I knew that reality would not be the same as my fantasy, but the need was so strong I was not thinking that way. You do not just ask any woman, you just don't, respect is to me important. I dated, and at some point it came up, most of the time, no and explained why. I would visit a lady older who lived below me in the apartment complex. We would talk, have something to drink, that was all. Her best friend visited and on once such visit she said to me, you need to be given a spanking. What, I said, a spanking, Yes she said, your behavior, your use of naughty words, soap would take care of that. My friend look at her friend and then at me, she is right, I have thought about it. The topic was soon changed, but I saw a light at the end of the tunnel. Several months later while talking, she said she rented a cabin at the beach for a week, interested in spending a week at the beach, I had time off coming and said yes. Well we arrived at the beach and was surprised her best friend was already there. Oh I forgot to tell you she said to me, I said okay. The following day in the afternoon they wanted to have a talk with me, okay and the topic of spanking came up and they said the reason for the beach house was to give me the spanking I needed and did not want others to hear or see. I finally came clean, and told them about this desire, and excused myself with the excuse of needing to use the bathroom. The look on their faces when I came back and was naked, and said is this being naughty enough. Oh you have stepped across the line young man my friend said, way across the line. Her best fried picked up her purse and pulled out a very large hairbrush, this will work just find. No I said, your naked, there is two of us, and soon was across my friends lap. She knew how to give a spanking, worse than the fantasy I had, I was kicking, squirming, pleading, and the spanking continued. I danced around the room afterwards until told to face the wall. They talked, mostly about the spanking and I wanted so bad to rub but did as told. A good half hour and I was told to stand before them, hands at side. Have you been a naughty little boy they asked, Yes I have been a naughty little boy. Is this what you want to be spanked. Yes I said. The friend then said to get over her lap, and slowly I did. At dinner in the restaurant I was having trouble not squirming, glad it was not full. The waitress smiled at me, and then my friends. Who is the Aunt the waitress asked, my friend said she was. I suppose he is squirming because he got a spanking. Yes he got a spanking. Tell her why looking at me. I was a naughty little boy. Do you wish a pillow young man, No I said. At your age, your were given a spanking. Yes I said. The friend then said that she had given me a spanking also, naughty words, and little boy behavior. The topic soon changed. I got what I wanted, I'm glad I did, and have no regrets. Respect the woman, first and foremost, a few would give a spanking, but it is important to show respect.

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    1. Glad you got what you wanted. And yes: respect is important.

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  3. It's good to hear from you after several months and it's very good that you and Greg are still in love!

    As regards an F/M domestic discipline relationship, I discussed the idea with my girlfriend one time, and she said she didn't know if it it would work. She said that she spanks me because she enjoys doing it, not in order to punish me. For her, spanking is associated with pleasure, not with punishment.

    If I am honest, I like the idea of F/M domestic discipline because it seems to be an easier alternative. Spending hours or days in the doghouse is very unpleasant. The intimacy of being spanked across her knee and the excitement of a warm stinging bottom is a much more attractive prospect!

    I cannot really comment on your situation, I will only say that it is a little unusual that you, the woman, want an F/M domestic discipline relationship and he doesn't. Many couples seem to be in the reverse situation: the male wants genuine domestic discipline (or at least thinks that he does, without ever having experienced it); the woman is happy to spank him because she finds it sexually exciting and likes the feeling of power, but she is not interested in becoming a 24/7 disciplinarian.

    richard.

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    1. "I will only say that it is a little unusual that you, the woman, want an F/M domestic discipline relationship and he doesn't."
      Tell me about it, lol. I know!!! And this is the second time that this happened to me.
      I am a big believer in the law of attraction. I must have somehow manifested these situations. why? I have no frigging idea. ;-)

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  4. Hello,just a thought,
    Your husband is not interested in the "real life" part of the kink HOWEVER he adds that he prefers the fun/game factor of it.
    If there is a solution for you across time maybe it is there. You never know what can come from a compromise.

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    1. Thanks for your input. we will find a way. we always do. :-)

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  5. Hi Tina,

    through my eyes, your post does not read dominant at all.

    That you offered the choice of who gets spanked… I ask....who has the power there?
    That he can meet his kink outside of the marriage, that is already a 180 degree switch. Insteaad, that is something that would normlly be in play for a woman in many FLR relationships.

    As a sub man, both of these suggestions would drive me crazy, in a bad way.

    In my view, sub men sometimes rebel and test the boundaries because they need proof from time to time that it matters as much to their Domme as it does to them. When there is prevarication it sends the wrong signal.

    My biggest need in the control that I feel (being on the receiving end of it) and I know for M , she needs to feel her power. Neither of us can now be any other way. It is like we are hot-wired.

    M has given me permission to reply.

    Hanna

    Ich würde das Verhalten nicht akzeptieren. Wenn ich etwas wiii, erwarte ich sofortigen Gehorsam. Hanna weiß das. Und klar, will Hanna die Hausarbeit nicht tun, wenn ich es von ihr verlange. Das ist mir aber egal. Am Ende des Tages ist sie dann noch süchtiger nach mir.

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  6. I am fine with being told that I am not really a dominant woman. Since I opened my blog I have been criticized like that often.

    I have no fucking idea why -in regards to men I love- I seem to switch into submissive mode.

    I think it is because I really love Greg. I dont wanna lose him. If I have to choose between him and the kink, i would always choose him.

    There once was a man in my life, I did not love him, and he was very submissive to me. But his submission was meaningless to me, because I did not love him.

    My experience is different from yours. Both my ex boyfriend and Gregory have been submissive to other woman, but stopped being it to me.

    Obviously I am doing something wrong.

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    1. Hi Tina,

      Please don't take what I wrote as criticism. It was observation and opinion. I would never criticise how someone else sets up their personal life.

      This is my second relationship. My first lasted a very long time. It was a vanilla marriage where I introduced FLR into the discussion. In the end, although there was some short term role play, my inner needs remained unmet. In the end, like a moth to the flame, there was only one path I could take. It involved considerable personal sacrifice, but the pull of the "real", once experienced, was too strong for me to ignore, or resist.

      I really feel for your situation. Having read all of the later discussion in the comments, I appreciate what you are going through and wish you all the best....and the strength to make the right decision for you.

      Hanna

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    2. No worries Hanna. I always appreciate your input. :-)

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  7. I find your blog very interesting in large part because I see you try to navigate the line between your desire to inflict “real spankings” and elicit “real tears” — which turn you on — and a desire to be kind and loving. To me, it seems that your struggle and sense that you are “doing something wrong” reveal how these desires are in conflict.

    I don’t know why your husband feels the way he does, but the result for him is the same as it is for me: I enjoy the role plays (that you find “ridiculous”) but abhor making it real. The idea that someone wants to intentionally inflict real pain and suffering and enough distress to elicit tears from me is completely irreconcilable with “love.” If my wife wanted to hurt me that badly I could never trust her motives. I could not even handle the idea that she wanted to hurt me that badly.

    I realize that this rings false for you, but for me it is 100 percent true. The role plays take that intent- which I find malicious and cannot handle—out of the equation.

    The only woman I have known in real life who does FM/DD clearly sought revenge when spanking her boyfriends. She would resist the term “revenge,” but she also made clear that things were not even in her book until her boyfriend was bruised and suffering. You have resisted the revenge term in a prior exchange, yet your post suggests that “all is good now” only after real physical suffering has been inflicted.

    I get that you are an introvert and that expressing your needs is difficult, but what you seem to be suggesting is that instead of overcoming that difficulty, you would prefer to have unilateral decision-making authority (so you do not have to verbally express your needs) and the ability to physically punish resistance or questioning of your decisions. Is that right? If not, how do you use this to deal with your introversion because it really sounds like what I described.

    Through some very painful therapy, I have found that I was subjected to sadism at a very early age. As a result, the line between the role plays and making it “real” is no joke whatsoever. In the last few years, when the role plays got to real, I shut down like someone trying to survive torture, including by disassociating.

    I am not suggesting that this is Gregory’s case. However, I am suggesting that his need to keep it in the emotionally safer zone of role play may be a real one and one that crossing that line could have significant consequences, even if he is not consciously aware of it. I was not consciously aware of it until recently after 30 years of role playing.

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    1. A couple of thoughts:
      (as always, you provide great input. Thank you very much!)

      I am so glad you found some answers through therapy. I am happy that you were able to figure things out. And I am very sorry to hear that such bad things happened to you at a very early age.

      I will take your advice and I will not cross any line. I never intended to anyway. I want everything to be in emotionally safe zones for both him and I.

      Maybe- and this is a new thought for me- I want the D/s scenario so badly because I sometimes dont feel emotionally safe. The D/s is like a contract where the man is saying: "If I mess up, I am willing to make it up to you again." And i mean: emotionally. I dont care about diamonds and flowers.

      In a normal/vanilla relationship the guy says: "Hey, babe, I am sorry." And the thing is over for him. But a "hey , babe, I am sorry" does not help me at all. Instead it makes things even harder for me, because I am expected to say: "It´s ok", whereas in reality nothing is ok for me.

      Greg and I had a nasty moment not too long ago. we were at a social event/party, he was drunk, and things got out of control. He was so drunk ,he could not even walk straight anymore when we left the bar. (I was completely sober. I dont drink at all.) On the way to the car he said the meanest things to me. I mean: really, really mean things. I had to suffer endless insults from him. Like: "Get out of my way you fucking bitch" etc etc etc.

      I know he was drunk, I tried to not let it get under my skin, but it did. I was shaken to the core. I was fearful. I felt like crying. I was furious. I felt treated unfairly. (I had done nothing that evening than being a supportive spouse to him. I had wanted to leave the event/party hours earlier, but I did hang in there for him. And the result was that at 3am I am insulted and threatened by a drunk husband.

      I drove us home. Somehow. Because I was literally shaking.

      The next morning when we spoke about it, he did not even remember anything. I really tried to talk things through with him. I cried, I told him that I cant accept behavior like this, that I was scared last night. That I am really hurt. And he apologized to me. But he also, in my opinion, did not get how terrible the whole event was for me. He apologized, promised to not do it again, and from his perspective the thing is over. he was laughing it off, like: hey, i was drunk, dont take me serious when I am drunk.

      From my perspective though: Nothing is over at all. I still feel traumatized by what happened. It´s not so much that I hold a grudge against him, but it´s more like: I am still shaken. I am now fearful a situation like this might happen again. If I bring it up again, he might say thinks like: "I promised to do better. " But his promise does not do shit for me in making me feel better. But him letting me spank him would.

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  8. There seems be a widespread belief nowadays that if someone has behaved badly, all he (in this case it is a male, so I will use the masculine pronoun) needs to do is to say that he is sorry and then everything will be ok again. The problem with this is that if he suffers no negative consequences for his action, he may very well be tempted to behave badly again. He knows that all he has to do is apologize. If, on the other hand, he is punished, he is more likely to think twice before misbehaving.

    In most relationships punishment takes the form of withdrawal of affection (the doghouse). As I said in my last comment, spanking seems to me to be a much preferable form of punishment. Perhaps it would be a good idea to discuss the incident with him again and try to make him realize how angry it made you.

    richard.

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    1. yes, richard, I need to talk with him about it again.

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  9. As you know there is a saying „Im Wein liegt die Wahrheit“. So I‘m really wondering if he is so much different than all the other stupid drunk guys in all the bars. To me it sounds like he is just searching for somebody who is the small little lady while he can play the big guy and just when he wants, she can also fulfil his kinky wishes - as he likes.
    For me this is not a basis for a healthy relationship. It sounds like you are suffering and independent from being dominant or not, this is not how you should feel like.
    Also suppressing your needs will sooner or later hit you emotionally. I know what I‘m writing about.

    Chris

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    1. "Kinder und Betrunkene sagen die Wahrheit"
      that is exactly what came to my mind. And I asked him: Is this really what you think about me? That I am a bitch and that I am in your way?
      But he denies it. Says that was only drunk nonsense.

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  10. What he did to you is awful and traumatizing. I am am an alcoholic who has been sober for almost 20 years. I blacked out regularly. It sounds like you want him to understand or really feel the pain he caused you and that without it, you probably feel like an apology carries little weight. I suppose in some sense that could be distinguished from seeking revenge or payback, but I am not sure if for me it is much of a distinction. In this case, I am not sure it would have the desired effect on him (if I am right about what you want) because if he blacked out there really is zero memory. No matter how much you hurt him physically, he will not remember what happened and will not emotionally connect to what he did. He will only know that he drank, lost time, and that you said he did whatever you say he did. In that position, it may just feel like revenge.

    I obviously don’t know if he is an alcoholic, but if he is, spanking him (presumably severely) would provide no guarantee that this would not happen again. Alcoholics lose jobs, spouses, children, houses, etc. all the time before they stop drinking. Physically punishing him could make the situation much worse. The only thing that keeps an alcoholic from pdestructive behavior is abstinence from alcohol.

    I am not saying that you do not have a right to be treated kindly and respectfully. I am saying that the path you seek may not get you there.

    I admire your candor and self reflection. At the risk of sounding unsympathetic, I have to point out that it is difficult to reconcile your desire to use DD in a situation like this with how “hot” you think it is. I would hope that if you ever did what you want to do to him for this offense, that you would not be aroused In doing so.

    No one likes empty apologies, but we wrong people and are ourselves wronged all the time. Learning to forgive is difficult, but most of us have to do it without the satisfaction of inflicting the suffering on the other person which we believe was inflicted on us.

    Good luck with what is surely a difficult situation.

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    1. I have no experience with alcohol. Alcohol has no appeal to me at all. I dont like it and I dont understand alcohol.

      I thank you for telling me that what he did to me is awful and traumatizing. Because yes, that´s how I feel. It was terrible indeed. And it freaked me out that he was so "it´s no big deal" about it.

      I could not tell my German family how terrible it actually was, otherwise they would have worried a lot.

      And Gregory did not care.

      And I remember sitting in that frigging bar, and Gregory not stopping reproaching me and blaming me for all sorts of stuff.

      It is hard for me to combine the sober Gregory with the drunk Gregory. It´s like 2 different people.

      I got my own issues in life. I generally dont mind if he drinks, but I am really worried now that a situation like this arises again.

      I am generally not in a good spot at the moment. I am afraid that I am very close to a burn out. There is just so much going on in my life. And the american administration is not helping in making it more and more difficult for immigrants to come into the US. I was supposed to move to the US around october. But now the whole process takes much longer. And me moving to the US is a huge step. I will be even more vulnerable.

      I just did not expect that the alcohol would change Gregory that much.

      As for the kink and spankings: It aint gonna happen anytime soon anyway. I am in Germany, he´s in the US.

      And James, dont hold back :-) . We have a good history together by now. I do appreciate your input. Always.

      The hotness factor:Well, I think it would be pretty hot IF he would actually say something along the lines of: Hey, baby, I know, I messed up. I never intended to hurt you. Really.
      I did not know how my being crazy drunk would affect you. I promise you it wont happen again. I want you to feel safe with me, ALWAYS. I am not into the things you are, but hey, it it makes you feel better, I am all yours. I know that you have given me your all, I will give you whatever you need to feel better. Do or make me do whatever you want. I am not afraid because I know you love me and want the best for me"

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  11. After I wrote it, I realized that is the kind of thing you were thinking about with "hotness." I get it.

    If someone has a drinking problem, I can assure you that they can be a completely different person when they are drunk, and that they can be unaware of it. This is almost unfathomable to someone who does not drink. When you are the person who gets hurt, you think it is all very intentional, but it is often not the case. You likely have never been anywhere near as out of control as someone who drinks to the point of blacking out, so I know it is pretty much impossible for you to understand. You still should not have to be subjected to it. I'm just saying that you two are coming at this from very different perspectives.

    When you find out you did something during a black out, it is both unreal and very difficult to face. You have no connection at all to what really happened because your brain just "stopped recording". If you know or are starting to realize that you have a drinking problem, you begin drowning in shame from it. This makes confronting it even worse. I don't know if he's an alcoholic, but most people who are "normal" with alcohol don't have episodes like that in my experience. You might want to check out Al-Anon which was created for people who are close to an alcoholic so they can learn how to draw boundaries and avoid being overly co-dependent. It is a sister program to Alcoholics Anonymous.

    I'm sorry you are experiencing this. Even though I am an alcoholic, during sobriety, I have experienced similar things with my family members who drink. It is very painful and very difficult, even for someone like me whose family has been immersed in it for decades.

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  12. To the person who left a great comment re D/s and bdsm /sadism/masochism; and my vulnerability by moving to the US; and sharing an experience a friend made: Sorry. I deleted your comment by accident. Do you wanna comment again? It would be appreciated.

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    1. OK. I didn't save a copy of the comment and can't remember the exact wording, but basically what I said was this:

      I think that S/M and D/s are two different things. Some people are masochistic and like pain, but they are not submissive, they simply enjoy the physical sensation of being spanked, caned etc. Some people are submissive, they may or may not like being spanked, but they like submitting to another person.

      An ex-girlfriend of mine, who was divorced, told me that her ex-husband was masochistic but not at all submissive. He once brought home a cane and asked her to use it on him. She refused, as she was not into S/M herself. He had a drink problem, when he was drunk he became aggressive and sometimes violent. She told me that several months after she divorced him, she saw him in the street. There was a bus stop nearby, a bus had just stopped there. She was so afraid of him, she jumped into the bus without looking where it was going, she just wanted to get away.

      Although he was masochistic, he was not in the least submissive. She on the other hand was not into S/M, but she had a certain interest in D/s. After we had known each other for a few weeks she said she would like to tie me up. Our experiments with bondage did not prove very successul as we did not have any proper equipment, but I found it interesting that she suggested it.

      You say that going to the USA will make you even more vulnerable. Perhaps you should consider whether you really want to do this.

      richard.

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    2. Thanks, richard.
      Always good to hear from you.
      And sorry that I accidentally deleted your first comment.

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  13. Hello Tina
    I really feel with your situation. In reading all the discussion I have several ideas:

    30 years ago I was also drunked one evening and my behavor to my wife was very bad. The next day I could not remember the details. She was hurted and I was not clear that our relationship would go on. I had to get her love and trust back. I had to investigate myself, why this happened, why I got angry about her (even she did not have done something special). For me deep ferlings from childhood and left alone came up. I can imagine that this can be also for other subs a subject ... For me it was important to have a track of understanding the situation and myself - and it was the beginning to explain my behavor a little to her. But I needed really that she insisted.

    Second I think it can be a challenge to be spanked if the man has really bad feelings about himself. And it is really the matter of getting real and not kinky. But ih he does not understand himself, he cannot -maybe - the spanking. He is not open because he is in conflict with himself.

    Maybe you have to tell him really: I need a solution/explanation of this „drunk“ situation. As long I do not have it our relationship is in a status of „pending“ (hangend, wartend).

    At last when I do not feel the power of my wife I also rebell more against little signs of power of her: Then it is for me more like play and not real (strong) power. Then to say „NO“ it is a little like test of her, if she has the courage really to show me that she want to be the „boss“. This would not be against my will - if she insist against me it gives me more trust in her.

    Greetings Peter ( Sorry for my „swiss“ English)

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  14. Hi Peter
    Thanks for commenting :-)
    I appreciate your comment and input very much.
    I spoke with Gregory about that night again. I think he knows now that it affected me deeply.

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    1. I'm VERY glad to read this, Miss Tina. Hopefully he will never repeat that awful behaviour.

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  15. So I was asked, rubbing a very sore bottom, the girl I was seeing, is this what you thought it would be. I said it hurts, she smiled, spanking are suppose to hurt. I went to pull up my underpants and pants and she stopped me. Not done yet she said sternly. You wanted to be spanked, Yes I said, but the spanking is only part of it, face the wall, hands at side. I did as told, it was not how I dreamed a spanking would be, but is what I truly needed, and feel blessed to find such a person who understands.

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    1. thanks for sharing that experience with us :-)

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  16. The first time my girlfriend spanked me with an implement (after having spanked me with her bare hand a few times) it was more than I thought it would be. I found to my surprise that I could not sit down for the rest of the day. It certainly got to the BOTTOM of our disciplinary problem!

    richard

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  17. Hello Tina , I am a lifelong submissive male . I am successful in life and as a professional have always been in a leadership role. I have followed your blog for some time but never commented. My heart goes out to you because I think we are in a very similar place in our marriage. I love my wife dearly but other than play she refuses to take a dominate place in our relationship. This is difficult to accept because she is very dominant in her nature and actually has to work very hard to fit into the traditional submissive role. She is willing to role play at times but like you I have no interest in playing at submission , I need and desire that incredible closeness and bond that is found in real life dominance and submission. I love my wife dearly as you do your husband but I have found that it is quite impossible to put my desires for submission aside and continue in a Vanilla relationship . I have tried many times but always find that after a time my anger or hurt wears off and I have no energy to live a life without submission . I hope you have better results that me.

    Take care
    John Dalton

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    1. John, thanks for your comment. Great food for thoughts.

      Me, personally, I think:
      I am the creator and master of my own life. I am the only one to blame if I dont get my needs met. The outer world is a mirror to what is going on in my thoughts. Therefore if I wanna change my experiences in the world, I gotta change my inner world, meaning my thoughts and believes first.

      A big teacher to me was "wd spoon", an experienced submissive blogger.
      (http://mymimpressions-wdspoone.blogspot.com/?zx=71a666119af15b9a )

      I spoke/emailed with him years ago, but he definitely left a lasting impression on me. He always had dominant partners. He was always able to find partners who were willing to meet his needs. Even at times where it was even more difficult for submissive men to find dominant women than it is now. And I am always thinking: If he could find what he is longing for, why shouldnt I be unable to do so ? I dont know why exactly he had such a deep impact on me, but he is one of the greatest sources of hope and optimism for me when I am feeling down in the kink context.

      Basically I do believe that as soon as I am changing myself,the circumstances in my life are gonna change too.

      I know the feeling of anger. In me, it stems from a feeling of: "I am doing so much for you, why cant you take care of my needs?" But I know by now that I am the one responsible for my needs. I am the one who is responsible for making myself happy.

      I try to focus on the positive aspects. Do I succeed always? Hell no, lol. But I try :-)

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  18. I'm sorry you haven't found the happiness you seek, Tina, but I think you could broaden your horizons and tolerance. If he's will to be submissive in a "fun and games" sense, why not make more of an effort to engage in those activities and see if you don't grow more fond of it over time?

    You seem to expect the changes/compromises to all be one-sided, from what I'm reading.

    Sometimes it's wise just to take what is given.

    Best regards,

    Graham

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    1. Hi Graham,
      yes, that´s good advice. Thanks :-)

      Delete
  19. In a marriage it is not unreasonable to ask "why cant you take care of my needs" at least to some extent. If you were not addressing some of each other's respective needs, there would be no reason to be married.

    However, asking someone to submit to a real DD relationship is an entirely different matter. You would be asking him to cede control to you and to submit to painful physical punishments, presumably with unreviewable discretion on your part. That is a huge ask.

    In the "typical" scenario, the party seeking to be "disempowered" asks for this type of relationship. That is a lot less problematic because they have already decided that there is something they will gain by foregoing their autonomy and enduring the physical pain. The empowered party may not be that into it, but they are not the one who is going to be physically hurt or have their decisions vetoed.

    Nothing I've seen here indicates that you have that situation. If your husband agreed to this, he would be doing it simply to appease you at a very high cost to him. If you tell someone before you get married that this is non-negotiable, fine. It is still hard to project how it will feel, and it may not work out. However, you asked for it up front, but asking for it after you are married is really unfair.

    You have created a very rosy narrative of what DD is to you. As you can tell, despite my interest in this sort of activity on a role playing level, I have a very different DD narrative. It does not sound like your husband has bought into your narrative. In any event, if someone were to agree to what you want without really wanting it--for themselves and not for you--you run the risk of creating resentments that may be irreparable.

    From what I've read, guys who want DD are very forgiving of mistakes that their wives make. I would not assume that would be the case here. What if he let you spank him for this transgression and thought you went overboard? What if he felt it was vindictive and that you just wanted revenge for something he doesn't even remember doing? Can you foresee the kinds of resentment that could create?

    Remember, as far as he is concerned, what he did to you was not intentional. I know it felt intentional to you, but in his sober moments, it is probably inconceivable to him to talk to you that way. However, what you are asking to do is completely intentional. You literally want to hit him until you feel better. Guys who want this seem to be OK with that. I know I really am not. If someone needs to hit me to feel better, there is a real serious problem.
    You may feel justified, but the pain you want to cause would be intentional. Think about how that could play out. At least consider the narrative that might go through his mind.

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    1. James, I appreciate your concern. I wanna tell you that you dont need to worry about him. I use this blog to share my feelings. Openly. I dont actually follow each and every feeling/impulse/emotion I have. I understand what you are saying. I hear you.

      I am just very surprised by how events have unfolded in my life TWICE now. Both with my ex and with him. Both men stopped submitting to me.

      I know, it sounds like: "Well, I must be a real bitch then...." But seriously, that´s not the case. I even tend to be a bit submissive to the man I love. I remember, when Greg was the first time in Germany, my german family was flabbergasted by how much I tried to do whatever he wanted.

      I think I just need to learn to "vanillaly" express my vanilla needs and wants more clearly. I am working on it.

      As for the kink: I just dont understand why he did much heavier stuff with other women, but not with me. But on the other hand, he did not marry these women, but me.

      In the end I think my mom is right. She always told me: "A woman cant be a saint and a whore to the same man. The man sees the wife as saint, but in the bedroom he needs a whore."I never thought she was right, but now I think she is.

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  20. I am sure it is frustrating. I just wonder if it happens more than you think. People seem to underreport failures in this area. I have really only seen one guy report that he had to stop DD because it made him dread going home on nights he was caned.

    The only thing I wonder is whether you had an easier time with DD while the scope of the relationship was more limited and that once it got deeper and more extensive (I.e., being married versus being a girlfriend) it became problematic for each guy. I didn’t think it was because you became tyrannical or abusive. I suspect that if you ever saw that what you were doing with DD had an adverse Impact on the other person you would probably stop on your own. Unlike many others, I tend to think you could avoid getting carried away with the intoxication of the power.

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    1. No man has ever dreaded coming home to me. I am very sure about that. And I have never been carried away with the intoxication of the power.

      For me , power is always linked with an obligation to be responsible and to take good care of the people "under" my power.

      And : I never saw that anything I did in the dd context had an adverse impact.

      For me it is much easier to say "no" and have clear limits and boundaries to protect myself when I am not in love with the man. The moment I love him, I am willing to give him what he wants. In order to please him I neglect my own needs.

      This can go on until I dont have anything to give anymore. But because I am actually strong, and I am able to solve all sorts of problems for people and my man, it can take a long time for me to realize that I am giving/doing too much for him and taking not enough care of myself.

      I am a dominant woman, I get turned on by F/m stuff, and my friends always tell me that I am very dominant person. But I am also a huge people pleaser. Having happy people around me is important for me. And in most cases I know exactly what to do or say to make the other person happy.

      I would have wanted Greg´s ok for a F/m dd scenario because it would have given me the feeling of being allowed to express my own needs even if my needs clash with his. As it is now, if our needs clash, I tend to give in to his needs.

      He does not force me into giving in, he is no even aware of it, it is just something I do. I want him happy. In a vanilla context it is hard for me to decide that my needs are more important that his. I am programmed to ignore my own needs.

      Generally, in life, I think it is my job to take care of my loved ones. My shrink says it is a behavior that I learned very early on in life. I had to be the grown up, the responsible, the adult one, the one in charge. I made the decisions from a very young age on. I feel like everybody depends on me. I feel like it is my job to be there for them and help them and support them and solve their problems.

      But at least I am aware of these things now.

      I am in the process of asking myself every time now: "do I really wanna do it?" and "is this person`s need more important than my own need?"

      Delete
  21. You said “ I would have wanted Greg´s ok for a F/m dd scenario because it would have given me the feeling of being allowed to express my own needs even if my needs clash with his. As it is now, if our needs clash, I tend to give in to his needs.“

    I get the care taking and people pleasing. I have a similar issue. People who grow up in chaotic homes and have to be adults early on often do.

    What I have never seen or heard about is the way you see F/M DD as the “solution” to it.

    If I read this correctly, you only feel like you can express your needs or push to have a clash in needs resolved in your favor If you have been given unilateral decision making authority and the power to punish physically.

    Why is that? Do you not want to have to discuss them and defend them? I have gotten that sense. It seems like a lot to ask someone to subject themselves to a DD relationship to deal with difficulty in expressing yourself or pushing for what you want.

    It’s one thing to say that in the abstract, but at the end of the day someone is agreeing to let you physically hurt them so you can better express yourself. If they really want that, OK, but if not that is a huge thing to ask of someone.

    I doubt anyone dreaded coming home to you. I was just describing how rarely people talk about failures with these arrangements and I was mentioning one guy who did.

    It sounds like you are working through it. I hope it goes well. I have the same difficulty, but for different reasons.

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    1. "What I have never seen or heard about is the way you see F/M DD as the “solution” to it."
      I am just very unique ;-)
      "If I read this correctly, you only feel like you can express your needs or push to have a clash in needs resolved in your favor If you have been given unilateral decision making authority and the power to punish physically.

      Why is that?"
      I dont need the power to punish PHYSICALLY. It can also be non-physical punishment. Like, idk, making him go to a country music concert with me. I like country music, he does not ;-)

      I need the unilateral decision making authority because if we are equal or have the same authority, I am in 99% of the cases doing what he wants. Not because he is mean, but because it is so hard for me to insist on doing what I want.

      Delete
    2. Let´s say I wanna go to a country music festival, I wanna go, but he is not into it. He does not like the music. If we are in a vanilla scenario, I am sure that we wont go, because he doesnt like it and I am not insisting on going.

      On the other hand, if he wants to go to a comedy club, which is fun for him but not my cup of tea, I am sure that I will end up there with him, because in my mind I ponder my options:

      On the one hand: telling him that we are not going there, he will be sad and disappointed and I will feel guilty as hell for not letting him go to a place that he very much enjoys.

      On the other hand: going with him, he will be happy , I am strong enough to suffer through hours of jokes that I dont get and others that I dont think are funny at all. I will be suffering, but I wont feel guilty. I know that I am strong. I can deal with whatever life throws at me, but I cant deal with being the reason if somebody, in that case my husband, is unhappy.
      Does this make sense?

      You are asking me: "Do you not want to have to discuss them and defend them? " And my clear answer is: Hell no!!!
      I dont wanna discuss and defend anything with him. I am tired of discussing and defending my decisions. I like country music, he does not. I understand that the music is not intellectual challenging for him, I understand that the harmonies and the lyrics are very cheezy and foreseeable. I understand that it is all a money making machine. I get all that, and nevertheless I like the music. And I understand that he does not like it. There is NOTHING to explain, understand or discuss. I get it, he does not like it.The same goes with comedy clubs. I understand that people love it. I get that it is funny and sometimes sophisticated and that it serves all sorts of purposes. I understand that Greg thinks its funny. And I just dont like it because sometimes my english is not good enough to get the joke, and sometimes it is a cultural thing, I just dont think it is appropriate to use germany and hitler and ww2 in a comedy setting. I have watched hours of stand up comedy with Greg, he is sitting next to me and laughing like crazy while I am bored. There is nothing to discuss. And I dont want to defend and explain anything.

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    3. Look, one could discuss about finding middle ground, like: lets go and listen to country music on friday and go to the stand up comedy play on saturday. But if we agree on it and he tells me on friday afternoon that he is really not in the mood for it, i will give in. And on saturday it will be very hard, almost impossible for me to tell him: you did not come with me on friday, now i wont come with you on saturday, because: I dont want to limit him and I dont wanna feel guilty.

      Basically: If I am telling him "no" in a vanilla setting I feel very guilty. And if I am telling him "no" in a dd setting i feel empowered and loved.

      I want him to know that I would never actually harm or hurt him. I want him to trust me. I want him to trust me that I am making good decisions for us. I am not telling him " let´s stay at home and not go to the comedy club" in order to make him miserable. I am telling it to him because I know that I will have headaches for hours if I go out after a hard day. If we discuss it, he will think that he can convince me that it might be good for me to get out of the house, to see friends, etc, but i KNOW that what I need is staying at home.
      Discussing and defending my decisions is literally the LAST thing I wanna do.

      If I am making a decision, I am trained to see the full picture. Do I make mistakes? of course I do, but generally speaking: My decisions are taking his and my needs into account. Always. I cant make a decision solely based on my own needs. I always have his needs and wishes in the back of my mind too.

      In a vanilla setting, if I wanna go to a restaurant that he does not like, and if I nevertheless insist on going, I cant enjoy the meal there fully, because I am worried about him. That´s why I never insist on going to a certain place against his will.

      In an ideal world I would want him to submit to me because he knows that I am always watching out for him.

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  22. Sorry, if I riled you up. I just find this very interesting. I get how you react to his sadness about not getting to do what he wants to do, but what is puzzling is why that sadness is no longer an issue if you have unilateral authority. I would think he would be just as sad to not see a comedy show or to go see a country music concert, but for some reason, you only see that sadness as an issue if the relationship is "vanilla".

    Honestly, I'm married, and I know a lot of married people. Part of the deal is often doing something the other one wants to do even if you don't like it, or just doing certain things separately. I didn't mean to suggest it should be discussed endlessly. Obviously, you like country music, and he doesn't, and he likes stand up comedy, and you don't, but for some reason when power is shared equally, you see yourself as losing every time.

    He could go with you because he loves you, and even if he doesn't like it, he wants you to be happy. That's the way I usually see it play out, not with a complete power shift to one person.

    Anyway, I don't want to make you explain or defend anything. I just like the depth at which you think about things, and I find you very interesting. We also share some psychological similarities.

    Also, your English is better than all of my neighbors'. It is really good. However, stand-up comedy has to be difficult for anyone whose first language is not English because it relies so much on multiple meanings, idiomatic expressions, slang, misdirection, etc. It seems like new words and phrases are coming out every week, and I will sometimes hear things that I really don't get either. I always wondered if it was that way in other countries. It seems like our language changes at a rapid rate.

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    1. I am enjoying this conversation with you. It helps me to clear my thoughts.

      Your words sum my thoughts up perfectly:
      " what is puzzling is why that sadness is no longer an issue if you have unilateral authority. I would think he would be just as sad to not see a comedy show or to go see a country music concert, but for some reason, you only see that sadness as an issue if the relationship is "vanilla"."

      Yes, indeed, for me, the vanilla setting changes everything to the worse. I dont wanna see him "suffer" in any way, shape or form in a vanilla setting, but I am fully ok with seeing him "suffer" in a kink/loving domestic discipline setting.

      For me, this has always made sense. It is kind of unexpected to me that it is not obvious to everyone. Therefore I am really thankful that you are bringing it up. It helps me to put my thoughts into words, which seems to be difficult for me sometimes :-)

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    2. If we are in a vanilla setting and I am telling him stuff like: "let´s go home" or "come to the country concert with me" I am asking something from him and he is not getting anything in return. He just has to do something that he does not wanna do, because his wife asked him to. He will not like going home now or going to the concert, and therefore if he still does it, I will feel like: Now I owe him something, because he was really nice and gave me something and I have to reciprocate. And I will feel guilty and sometimes even mean, to limit his fun. I do understand that country music is really not everybody `s taste, to say the least. And I know that I am often leaving parties super early, at a time when many people think the party has not even really started. I do know that I am asking something from him by leaving with me, or even staying at home with me.

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    3. I am not asking these things from him to make his life harder. I tend to only ask when something is really important to me. If I see a chance to stay at a party with him, I stay. And if I feel strong enough to endure comedy with him, I will. But sometimes, in order to stay sane, I just NEED to stay at home, or go home early, or I really wanna go to a country concert.

      Often times I am fully ok with doing stuff separately, I mean: without him. I dont mind him staying or him going alone, or me going alone. I am pretty independent in that regard.

      But sometimes I just want to share an experience with him. It would mean a lot to me to have him there. But the fact still stays that he does not like the country music concert. Therefore if he is coming with me, I feel like: "I am really mean to make him come to this concert with me even though I know exactly that he does not like it"

      I think my thoughts are along the lines of: "what right do I have to put my needs over his needs??? How dare I."

      Add to this my believe/knowledge that I am actually tough. I can and have endured a lot. I can do /endure/sit through stuff that I dont enjoy. It feels like: No big deal, if he really wants to see comedy instead of the country concert, I do it for you. Even if I really dont enjoy it.

      My vanilla mindset is almost that of a submissive person. Thinking: "hey, if it makes him happy, I will of course do it for him."

      In a kink/loving dd setting everything changes.
      By him telling me "I follow your lead" I get the courage to allow myself to express my needs without feeling guilty. I allow myself to insist on things that are fun and enjoyable for me. I allow myself to not suppress my needs in order to fulfill his needs.

      And it is all ok for me, even his momentarily sadness and/or suffering because I know he gets something out of it too. He knows he is mine. He knows he is loved. He knows he is cared for. He knows we are connected on a much deeper level than other people. He gets my attention. He gets my gratitude, my warmth, my love. Even if I am - seemingly very cold- am telling him "you cant go playing golf with your friends this weekend" my "orders" to him come from a place of endless warmth .

      I think it is like this: by expressing my own needs, and telling him "no" i am telling him: "You are so special to me, I am feeling so safe with you, I am feeling so seen and loved by you, that I am courageous enough to open myself up to you. I am making myself vulnerable by telling you what I need.I show you aspects of my personality that I usually hide from people."

      I love being vulnerable in his presence. And I love when he shows me his vulnerability. A man in submissive mode is wonderful. I am getting turned on by it more than you can imagine. And if it is MY man, I am almost blown away by it in the most positive sense.

      I am totally ok with him suffering for me under these circumstances, because the moment he is giving me his submission, we are creating a depth in our relationship that is unheard of. His submission is a gift to me. I see it as that. It´s not something I can force out of him. If he does not give it to me, I gotta suck it up and deal with it. And that is exactly what I am doing at the moment in our marriage. I accept it and I am not pushing him, but I dont like it.

      I think I was so flabbergasted when he "withdrew" his submission to me because I still think I was not asking for too much. I was asking for stuff that I am giving him constantly myself.

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  23. So, I see why you are OK with him suffering through various things he would not otherwise suffer through because it fits a narrative you like about what it all means when it is done in the context of an FLR/DD relationship. You have literally created the rosiest description of the beauty and meaning of denying someone ("telling him 'no'") that I have ever seen. It's like a Harlequin Romance Novel.

    However, that's in your head, not his. When you say you are not "asking for too much," you way that because the sacrifices you would demand in an FLR/DD relationship are commensurate with those you would make in a vanilla relationship.


    However, you are missing one important thing. You are asking him to give up his autonomy. You are asking him to expressly and officially subjugate his desires to yours, but there is no indication that he feels anything like the "place of endless warmth" that your denial of his golf game (in the one example) allegedly comes from. I would be stunned if he had his heart set on going golfing, you forbade it, and he felt all warm and fuzzy because he believed your intentions were good.

    If you want to understand his withdrawal from submission, you should probably understand what HIS upside is in this kind of relationship. My initial question about "suffering" was naive in that the disempowered party always suffers in some regard with FLR/DD, but if the man is rational, he must benefit in another regard.

    Guys who want these relationships seem to get some very strong sexual and emotional satisfaction from submitting. It seems like they crave being controlled. They can handle being told "no" because being controlled is exciting for them or produces some other emotional response apart from the disappointment or resentment that would be expected from being denied something you asked for.

    Your answer sheds some light on a subject that has baffled me, which is this belief that DD is somehow good because it "reduces arguments." Of course it reduces arguments, one party is basically not allowed to argue! Sure, every woman says that she makes some provision for the man to speak his mind or voice his desires (as long as the tone is perfect and as long as he gives in immediately upon hearing her decision), but they also make it clear that no matter what the man says, she wins. Dictatorships never have arguments (they do have revolutions or coup d'etats), but not arguments. Nothing is "resolved." Instead, one party forces their will on the other, and the other always loses by default. Of course, the empowered party is quick to convince herself that her motives are pure and that this is all in the best interest of the disempowered party, but since she is not accountable to anyone for her decisions, there is really no way to know if that is actually the case.

    Losing by default is only tolerable if you get something else out of it. If you figure out what that is for your husband, you may figure out how to make him interested in submitting.

    I'm no fan of hers, but the woman who runs the femdomthinktank blog seems to get all of this at a pretty deep level. Even as she is denying, punishing, etc. her husband, she seems to know that she needs to make the arrangement beneficial to him or it would not work out, so she seems to make things exciting for him in various ways. Then she doesn't have to do housework, which I guess is a big deal for her.

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    1. "So, I see why you are OK with him suffering through various things he would not otherwise suffer through because it fits a narrative you like about what it all means when it is done in the context of an FLR/DD relationship. You have literally created the rosiest description of the beauty and meaning of denying someone ("telling him 'no'") that I have ever seen. It's like a Harlequin Romance Novel."

      Like a Harlequin Romance Novel? lol, what can I say, I am a romantic 😉
      I am not embarrassed by my feelings.

      "However, that's in your head, not his."
      That is very true. It is obviously not in his head.

      "When you say you are not "asking for too much," you way that because the sacrifices you would demand in an FLR/DD relationship are commensurate with those you would make in a vanilla relationship."
      Nah, I did not weigh things he would do against things I would do. I weigh things I am doing against things he would do.
      It all comes down to me doing too much. My insecurities are getting in my way. I am always trying to please him. I wanna be the best wife possible. I wanna be as supportive as possible. I want him to have all his dreams come true. I want him to be happy. (I know, I know, my whole feelings are like a Harlequin Romance Novel!)

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    2. "However, you are missing one important thing. You are asking him to give up his autonomy."
      Yes, I know. And I see the problem with it. I understand that it is not possible to be a couple, and on eye level with each other, and a source of inspiration and creativity to each other, if one is pretty much controlled by the other.
      The best explanation I can give to you, James, is: to me it looks like that you see me being in control as a danger or threat to Gregory. But that is not the case. I am not interested in harming Greg. I am not a real life sadist. I want Greg to prosper and be successful and have the best possible life. I want nothing but the best for him. I love this man.

      Even in my Harlequin Romance Novel I never said that he had to give up 100% control. I understand that there has to be some balance. But all I am asking is for him to please let me be in control sometimes too.

      "You are asking him to expressly and officially subjugate his desires to yours, but there is no indication that he feels anything like the "place of endless warmth" that your denial of his golf game (in the one example) allegedly comes from. I would be stunned if he had his heart set on going golfing, you forbade it, and he felt all warm and fuzzy because he believed your intentions were good."

      I think you come from a position of:" I need to protect myself."
      Me, I come from a position of: "I wanna belong to somebody". I was offering Greg what I was wanting most.
      I am glad he married me. That was great for my need to finally "belong" to him.

      Of course it is not fun when you are told: "nope, you cant go golfing." Of course it sucks. But -if one is wired like that-it also gives you a certain exciting feeling in your stomach.

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    3. "If you want to understand his withdrawal from submission, you should probably understand what HIS upside is in this kind of relationship. My initial question about "suffering" was naive in that the disempowered party always suffers in some regard with FLR/DD, but if the man is rational, he must benefit in another regard."

      I think I definitely have to talk with Greg about what HIS upside is.

      I dont think that the disempowered party always suffers. There comes a huge freedom with not being responsible, not having to make the decisions, being told what to do, having clear structure and clear limits. I know a man, he is into writing lines, and he is so into it that he sometimes writes lines for his domme the whole weekend. It´s like he is fleeing from a very chaotic real life into a very structured and clear and manageable private life. No decisions, no problems, just a domme who tells him: "write this line for me a couple hundred times."

      "Guys who want these relationships seem to get some very strong sexual and emotional satisfaction from submitting. It seems like they crave being controlled. They can handle being told "no" because being controlled is exciting for them or produces some other emotional response apart from the disappointment or resentment that would be expected from being denied something you asked for."

      yes, exactly. I know many guys who feel exactly like you describe. That´s the advantage of having this blog for almost 10 years now. I know them all 😉

      "Your answer sheds some light on a subject that has baffled me, which is this belief that DD is somehow good because it "reduces arguments." Of course it reduces arguments, one party is basically not allowed to argue! Sure, every woman says that she makes some provision for the man to speak his mind or voice his desires (as long as the tone is perfect and as long as he gives in immediately upon hearing her decision), but they also make it clear that no matter what the man says, she wins. Dictatorships never have arguments (they do have revolutions or coup d'etats), but not arguments. Nothing is "resolved." Instead, one party forces their will on the other, and the other always loses by default. Of course, the empowered party is quick to convince herself that her motives are pure and that this is all in the best interest of the disempowered party, but since she is not accountable to anyone for her decisions, there is really no way to know if that is actually the case."

      I dont know enough about what happened to you in your past. I honestly think you are neglecting the fact that we are talking about adult consensual relationships here.

      "Losing by default is only tolerable if you get something else out of it. If you figure out what that is for your husband, you may figure out how to make him interested in submitting."
      That is very true!!!

      Delete
  24. I have to clarify a few things. . .

    When I said the disempowered party "always" suffers, I did not mean "all of the time," I meant inevitably there is some suffering that goes with being disempowered. There is freedom from not being responsible (which I could really use once in a while), so I get that. I use the role playing to experience that.

    What is interesting is that we are somewhat inverses of one another. You seem to see "vanilla" relationships (by that, I mean vanilla in terms of the power balance), as zero sum and inherently transactional. It's almost like you see yourself as necessarily disempowered in them. My Harlequin Romance comment did not at all pertain to your view of the vanilla side, just the FLR/DD side.

    I, on the other hand, am deeply distrustful of the empowered party in an FLR/DD relationship, and I see them as having a large propensity to be unfair and abusive. I don't trust giving people unchecked power.

    I recognize it is because of my background, but I often see FLR/DD as inherently unfair and often mean-spirited. But, I know that because it is consensual, the disempowered party is getting something else out of the situation, often, sexual excitement or a sort of emotional security (if it goes well). If they didn't get that, and assuming they have not put themselves in a position of financial vulnerability, they can leave.

    My comment about "dictatorships" does not mean I don't get the consent part of it. It means that it is one sided as long as it remains in the FLR/DD mode. You said you don't want to have to explain what you want. If you're in charge, you get what you want and you get to decide if you will indulge dissent or not, as well as how much you will indulge. It means if you want to make him do something he hates and do not feel like explaining yourself, you don't. If it makes him sad, depressed, or whatever, that's his problem. So, I have a hard time seeing how it is not akin to a dictatorship. It may be consensual, but not democratic, while it is actually an FLR/DD.

    Here is where I differ from everyone: I don't think "consent" absolves the empowered party of responsibility for how they treat the disempowered party, and in these relationships, the empowered party answers to no one. If she screws up, she answers only to her own conscience, and people often do not want to believe that they screwed up, so they rationalize whatever they have done. I don't say that it is malevolent, but there is no one to answer to. I'm not sure why my comment provoked your consent remark because even you said you would have unilateral authority. You just seem to believe that whatever you decide to do with that authority will be inherently OK because you believe your intentions and motives are pure. They probably are as pure as is possible, but you still answer to no one, so how can you know?

    You said you are OK with his sadness, at least to some extent. So you will be the one who navigates the line between too much or too little. The woman on femdomthinktank draws a line between making your man "unhappy" (which is OK) and "deeply unhappy" (not OK). However, she is the one who decides where the line is (unless he pulls the plug).

    No matter what your intentions, it is hard for us to objectively assess that. But in the absence of some sort of abuse that effectively impairs his ability to make informed consent, because it is consensual, if there is a problem, the disempowered party can withdraw--from DD or the entire relationship. However, none of that changes the fact that saying DD "eliminates arguments" is nothing more than saying that one party inherently wins and the other inherently loses, until the rules of engagement are changed. It seems nonsensical to proclaim it some magic prescription for harmony because it stifles dissent.

    Anyway, thanks for the discussion. I enjoy your intellect and willingness to discuss things.

    ReplyDelete
  25. My position is obviously pretty weak, because both Greg and my ex - one way or the other - withdrew their consent to me.
    It seems like despite me always claiming that I am too nice, I obviously was too hard on them. How? I have no idea; which totally plays into your argument of: "No matter what your intentions, it is hard for us to objectively assess that."

    Oh, and for the record: I am 100% sure that I was not physically too hard on them. If I was too hard, it has to have been in the realm of emotional dominance.

    But let me nevertheless elaborate on what I think and feel:

    "When I said the disempowered party "always" suffers, I did not mean "all of the time," I meant inevitably there is some suffering that goes with being disempowered. "
    For two reasons I dont agree with you here.
    1. I grew up with a mom who loved being disempowered. She did not wanna carry any responsibility. She (figuratively and actually) enjoys sitting in the back of the car and letting other people decide where to drive. She tells me constantly how wonderful it is to let somebody else decide. And even today, sometimes both my mom and my thirty something year old brother BOTH sit in the back of our car and expect me to drive. They both dont wanna sit in front because they both dont wanna take on any responsibility.
    And being disempowered allows them to complain. They can complain without actually helping to better the situation.
    2. In a relationship both parties "suffer" once in a while. That´s part of being in a relationship. But in a loving domestic discipline relationship, in the ideal case, the disempowered partner is disempowered because he wants to be or at least does not mind not being in control. The "suffering" of being told "no, you cant go golfing" is not really bad, because along with the suffering comes the excited feeling in your stomach, the feeling that so many are craving, the feeling that makes so many submissive people feel so alive.

    "There is freedom from not being responsible (which I could really use once in a while), so I get that. I use the role playing to experience that."
    Very good. Everybody needs a break from being responsible. 🙂
    I am not sure if I have been clear enough to you what I mean when I say role playing is not my cup of tea. I want to say: I dont like all scripted stuff. I dont like school scenarios, or doctor patient role play stuff, i dont like anything that involves costumes or pretending to be somebody one is not. I prefer staying Tina and Gregory, even when it comes to the kink. I dont need to pretend that I am a boss who is scolding or spanking her employee, or a nurse who is doing something to a patient etc. For me, the appeal is in the rawness of the real emotions. I want to see Gregory dealing with his emotions, and not Gregory trying to be eg a student who has to deal with an unhappy headmistress.
    I love my Gregory and I wanna see everything that Gregory is or has or does. I dont need role play as a means to get to the real feelings.
    I have seen Gregory crying only one time, and it was one of the most bonding moments between us. I am sure that if he had not cried that one time, i would not be his wife now. The honesty and the rawness of his feelings drew me to him (among else, of course).

    ReplyDelete
  26. "What is interesting is that we are somewhat inverses of one another. You seem to see "vanilla" relationships (by that, I mean vanilla in terms of the power balance), as zero sum and inherently transactional. It's almost like you see yourself as necessarily disempowered in them. My Harlequin Romance comment did not at all pertain to your view of the vanilla side, just the FLR/DD side."
    That is an interesting observation. Yes, you are correct.
    And yes, as it is now, in a vanilla relationship setting I see myself as necessarily disempowered. Not because of anything the man does, but because of my own inability to say "no" to him. And : I understand that from a psychological point of view this is something that I have to work on. I need to learn to love myself as much as I love my man. I need to learn to shower myself with the same amount of love that I am showering my man. I need to learn that it is MY job to take care of my needs.

    "I, on the other hand, am deeply distrustful of the empowered party in an FLR/DD relationship, and I see them as having a large propensity to be unfair and abusive. I don't trust giving people unchecked power."
    Here is the thing: nobody wants you to give random people unchecked power. First of all, i am talking about a loving consensual relationship with a person you like/love and who you think is awesome. Secondly, it is a matter between you and your partner how you wanna form/shape the relationship. IMHO you got as much say in it as your partner. The boundaries are fluid. And why not handing over some power to the wife? I mean obviously she is a good person otherwise you would not have married her 😉
    How do you feel if your wife , in a vanilla setting tells you: "come to bed, darling, it ´s late and you need to get some sleep" I assume that is ok?
    And what if she would tell you: "James you are still not in bed and you need to be up at 6 am tomorrow again.Come to bed NOW!" Is that still ok for you or is already too bossy?
    In a dd/flr relationship I would tell the man: (lol, I had almost forgotten about it but I actually have told a man): "That´s it. You are going to bed right now!I have had enough of your staying up late. I want you in bed tomorrow at 10pm, lights out and hands over the blanket. No playing with yourself. I dont care if you think it is too early. And if you cant fall asleep you just lie there and think about why getting enough sleep is important"
    Is that unfair?
    I guess it depends on the man and on how he feels and his past and his triggers and ... there are so many factors to take into account.

    TBC I need to go to bed now myself. ;-) Greg is busy, he cant send me to bed. I wish he would ;-)

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    1. For fun. YTube. Joe Bonamassa at Royal Albert Hall. "Woke Up Dreaming". Love, Rich

      Delete
  27. Honestly, no matter how much I love someone, I could not hand over that kind of power. I could never trust anyone to use it fairly and wisely. I have never seen an example of anyone with that kind of power use it in a way that does not deeply upset me. If I had my heart set on a golf game with my friends (which would never happen because I can’t stand golf), and you pulled a power move and wouldn’t let me do it, I would see it as nothing more than a mean spirited and hurtful act. There is no narrative that would make it OK. I would see it as an intentional act to crush my spirit and deflate me. I can assure you that is true no matter how madly in love I am. Love does not immunize people from cruelty. That may be dysfunctional and outside the norm, but I have seen people who love each other act cruelly toward one another.

    That statement is definitely too bossy. It would not be well received. We are also very careful not to speak harshly toward one another.

    Yes, what you said is unfair. I would be deeply resentful. I would probably comply and act very distant toward you. I would withdraw affection and warmth because I would want you to feel how alone I felt being treated that way. I would want you to see the pain it causes me from being treated like that. Feeling disregarded and devalued are extremely strong triggers for me, and that would trigger me.

    I saw a lot of cruelty as a child. I don’t believe in loving dominance. It is an oxymoron for me. I get that others are different.

    ReplyDelete
  28. "But in a loving domestic discipline relationship, in the ideal case, the disempowered partner is disempowered because he wants to be or at least does not mind not being in control. The "suffering" of being told "no, you cant go golfing" is not really bad, because along with the suffering comes the excited feeling in your stomach, the feeling that so many are craving, the feeling that makes so many submissive people feel so alive."

    This! Being deliberately denied a much-loved and anticipated event or treat AS PART OF A CONSENSUAL FLR is a huge turn on, at least for me. No, I wouldn't want it done out of meanness or cruelty or constantly. I wouldn't want to forego expensive tickets or a vacation. But to be told no, you may not go motorcycling this afternoon, you'll be standing in the corner/writing lines/over my knee instead would have me trembling in anticipation.
    There's no right or wrong way to express sexuality, as long as all involved are adults and are willingly participating. Debating what's too much or too little with anyone other than the person(s) you're involved with is a zero sum exercise. The trick is finding someone on the same page, or at least reading the same book.

    ReplyDelete
  29. FL: Thanks FL for helping me out here. Your thoughts are much appreciated. You are understanding what I am trying to say. That´s a huge relief :-)Oh, and btw congrats to the new lawyer in your family. I am late to congratulate, but I read it only recently.

    James: I have been thinking about your words a lot. But I think I dont have the answers for you. I feel like being a guy person and you a christian and I have to defend my being guy. Basically, I cant defend my feelings and cravings and my sexuality. It is as it is. I get on on certain things that obviously have no appeal to you. I am not doing anything out of meanness or cruelty. And I have no interest in having my husband forego expensive tickets or a vacation. But I get turned on immensely by FL´s example of : "no, you may not go motorcycling this afternoon, you'll be standing in the corner/writing lines/over my knee instead"

    The fact that both men in my life could easily stop whatever we were doing is proof that whatever I was doing to them is consensual. If the guy doesnt like it he can stop without any consequences for him.

    You look at me through the eyes of a person who was hurt as a child in a bad way. And I am very very sorry that this happened to you as a child.

    Here, on my blog and in my sex life, I am talking about consensual events between two equally strong adults with similar needs. Both Greg and my ex were readers of my blog. I have been open with them about what I want and how I am wired right from the beginning.They both contacted me.

    Look, as an example: if I was in a relationship with FL, there was no need for him to fear that I would turn his life in a nightmare. He could still go motorcycling and meet friends and spend time with "the boys". But in the back of his mind he would always know that there is a chance that I tell him: "Motorcycling? No, not today. Today I got other plans for you" And my words would have him trembling in anticipation. And this is what I am trying to evoke. Not fear or sadness or resentment or the guy feeling miserable because of what I did. Far from it.

    But James, if this has no appeal to you, why do you even bother to read femdom stuff like my blog? If you feel like "saving" any man from me, I am actually hurt. The idea that a man needs saving from me is ridiculous, to say the least.

    Oh and one small thing:
    " Even as she is denying, punishing, etc. her husband, she seems to know that she needs to make the arrangement beneficial to him or it would not work out, so she seems to make things exciting for him in various ways. Then she doesn't have to do housework, which I guess is a big deal for her."
    Of course it has to be exciting for the guy. And it can be exciting for the guy, ask FL, he is my main witness/expert ;-)
    And: i am not sure if you meant it as a joke, I am telling you, I dont get jokes and comedy and I am lacking humor sometimes, but it is a BIG BIG thing for us women if the man helps with housework. Unfortunately in way too many families it is still the woman who does all the housework. Me, personally, I offered Greg to do the housework in the family, but that was my decision. I hate it when the guys just expect the women to do it. And in my experience, even if the husband says: we share the houseweork, in reality it is the woman who does the most.

    ReplyDelete
  30. I feel like I say certain things repeatedly that you ignore.

    I said repeatedly that I don’t think you are cruel. I know your men can withdraw because they did.

    I started this exchange because you were perplexed at why they withdrew. I was giving you another perspective on this subject from someone who is sexually excited by femdom but not interested in FLR-DD because I thought it might help you. I REPEATEDLY said there must be a benefit the sub gets from enduring the denial, pain, etc. FL articulated the benefit perfectly. I used the housework as an example of a miserable task that one woman completely off loaded on her man successfully because she also gets his submissive mind and how to ensure that he gets what he needs from submission. I said this because in all of your posts I saw nothing about your doing the Sam’s with the men who withdrew. Sure, you created a narrative for what it all meant, but that appeared to be in your mind only. I did not see anything about your trying to understand what THEY got out of submission to see if you were actually meeting that.

    I acknowledged all that. For some reason, you act like I did not.

    I then told you where I am at personally and why and acknowledged that it was personal due to my upbringing. Then the second someone who practices this in real life chimes in, you come after me and characterize me as having said you were cruel despite my having said repeatedly that you were not.

    I am not looking for any “words” from you. I know what I like, what I don’t like, and why. However, I would note that in all your examples of things you said you would or did do to a man in an FLR DD not once did you say that you would do them because you knew that it would excite them. Only now after someone jumped in did you suggest that.

    I don’t really care what you do. Knock yourself out.

    ReplyDelete
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    1. James, that is a strange dance we are doing.
      We trigger each other sometimes. Over the years this has happened a few times already.
      Sorry.
      Basically I think: I am ok and you are ok.

      Delete
  31. And to everybody else reading this thread so far: This is exactly why I think: conversations and talking does not really solve anything.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I disagree with that. Achieving mutual understanding and acknowledging differences helps reduce conflict, in general. I actually thought FL’s comment was very enlightening and did a great job of addressing the nuances in all of this. I also understand more about your mindset which in turn shed light on my mindset and what I am working on. I thought it was fine until you saw the participation of a kindred spirit as an opportunity to malign me and distort my comments.

      The one reason I come back here is because you are smart enough to have these discussions. Most of the bloggers in this space want their blogs to be an echo chamber of people who just agree with them.

      I was trying to help you understand why these guys withdrew. That is why I even went down this road.

      I resolve this with role playing. I am good with that. I don’t care who mocks or disparages it. It allows me to get what is exciting without enduring what is distressing.

      Delete
    2. Tina, I exchanged a number of e mails with you way back when this blog was new. In recent years I've checked it from time to time. And now I see that your relationship is in trouble. I have read some of the 63 comments and you replies, but definitely not all of them, or even half. But I will offer some thoughts.
      There are many men who simoly enjoy being spanked, and/or creating an environment and relationship in which it will become fairly common. They may enjoy gving a certain amount of deference to the woman who does this, and of course a sexual relationship and real feelings of love will follow. But as time goes by, their tolerance for deferring and submitting may diminish, and they may regret being in the kind of dynamic where it is expected. I don't recall how you met the two men you have fallen for. Did this come from reading this blog?
      I have no idea if this is what occurred in these two cases. But it does seem like you and Gregory have to have a meeting of the minds as to what form your relationship will take - a form that is satisfying and pleasurable to both of you. I wish you well.
      Tom

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  32. I from in the Netherlands

    Am adult schoolboy

    I am an adult schoolboy and I learn serious professional lessons for work and I combine that with school roleplay
    That is supervised do a miss
    And if I don't do my best in accordance with assets, I get punishment

    For a week from tomorrow


    Due to lack of good discipline, I now have a partner who is your roleplay during school.
    I myself adult school Boy.
    I did not do my best to the best of my ability.

    A few warnings
    I have to start tomorrow
    A whole week 7 days before punishment at 6 pm to bed.

    When I get home at 3 pm, I immediately put on pajamas in the shower and walk around until I have to go to bed at 6 pm.

    The early bedtime punushment starts tomorrow on Thursday December 12 with Wednesday December 18, 2019.

    In the meantime I had a big hard beating on bare buttocks.

    Her spanking is always a hard one that you like and otherwise streets

    Such as early bedtime punushment

    Writing penal rules

    Cornertime.

    I have to write 300 penal rules on Saturday and Sunday when I leave the school roleplay and return it to the school roleplay on Monday.

    So I'm a punished boy now
    Adult school Boy.

    summarizing

    All week 18 hours to bed for punishment

    Free weekend 300 penal rules

    Just an hour corner time

    Just a beating on my bare buttocks

    From now on I am going to be structured and disciplined, which is much more necessary for myself that the mistress school roleplay misses me
    Spanking on my bare buttocks
    And other punishments is always more than you like as a sub

    That's why I make sure that I don't get punishment from the lady as much as possible.

    Fortunately I am in bed with about five teddy bears.
    Well or not to go to bed early for punishment.
    I also sleep with my thumb in my mouth with a cotton thumb patch.

      I am an adult school Boy at the age of 7 or 8 years old.
      At least that is the age play age
    Because the mistress school gives me roleplay punishments.

    I go through life better because I want to prevent getting punished.

    The Kik is in it when they make sure you don't get it.

    Getting punished teaches you to get back on the right track. I also have more to it myself.
    Because I want to drop off at school to teach brother as much as possible on school roll play

    Where serious learning materials were learned.
      is becoming

    ReplyDelete
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    1. Seriously? Don‘t you think this is just a little bit impolite to post such a spam as a comment to this blog entry? Most likely you‘ve written that one-handed? Maybe read through it once you‘ve finished your ‚job‘ and think about yourself.

      Delete
  33. Reality is knowing that once you experience it, the one memory that you will walk away with is that the Woman will insure you truly know what a spanking is. So be careful, it is the "Mother" inside every woman that will decide how much you can take, and it is more than you think and wish did not know.

    ReplyDelete
  34. I masturbate to spanking magazines, have for along time. I date, mostly older women. Recently after dating this woman for sometime, she would ask what my sexual fantasy were. She had a wonderful home outside of town, lived alone, spent alot of time there. I decided to tell her, and so one Saturday morning I came to the kitchen, naked, erect, and told her. She liked it was not a sex thing, but said I masturbated. I stood there, and said now I've told you. She stood up, smiled at me, and said lets go to the bedroom young man. I did as told, she addressed the erection and then picked up a hairbrush and over her lap I went. She gave me a very sound spanking, told me never to come to the kitchen naked again, and did not listen when I said I was sorry, and learned my lesson. When I did finally get off her lap, I was taken to the kitchen, faced the wall and she said that felt really good and there will be more spankings based on my behavior. I stood before her,she asked how I felt, I hugged her, thanked her and then got dress.

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    1. Who cares? Is the Dutch schoolboy back and now polluting this entry with other brain farts?

      Delete