Friday, May 28, 2010

no negotiations?

OK, ok... this is a first draft. I am sure there will be changes at a later point of time :-)

Most of the time I am not really sure about how any future and serious relationship with the real man should look like. I only know that it has to have domestic discipline elements in it for sure. This morning however, I had a very clear moment. In legal terms: I had a "lucidum intervallum", which means even though everything is usually pretty foggy, for one moment I could see absolutely clear at least parts of what I want.

The thing is, I hear and read a lot about what is possible and what worked well in other peoples relationships. I get new information almost everyday and sometimes that confuses me and I am not sure any longer what I actually like and what only projections of other peoples fantasies are.

Of course there are things I am absolutely sure I like to do and others, I just know would never work for me. And I am more than willing to let my man know, which practice is in which category. In fact,I have no problem with letting all of you know, so no problem here for me. :-) But then, there is a huge grey area as well.I am talking about things I have never done before and do not have a real opinion about. Oh and sure, I could just stop thinking here, meet a man and start "doing" all those "grey" things. Giving it a try and see if I like it or not. Test the waters. But I am just too used to think about problems... I do earn my living with thinking about problems, it´s not easy to just stop such an habit... And not to forget, there´s the little problem of "me needing to actually think the guy is great" in order to be ready to involve myself in these kind of things.

So during my clear moment I realised, that I do not want to negotiate with my man about what is going to happen within the relationship. And to me, that is such a strange idea, it´s almost against everything I do belive in life. I like talking, could do it all day long and I am convinced, that talking is the best way of getting problems solved and all parties happy. My family and me, we all live together in a pretty unorthodox way in one big house. And my law firm is in that house too... We are all adults, there is not actually one person in charge and there is no head of our household. I can assure you, we do talk a lot in order to get things going and sometimes just to prevent each other from killing each other ;-) Did you ever see the Ozzy Osbourn real life tv show? Well, I could probably earn a fortune too, just by letting a camera team in our house.

However, in a serious relationship, I want my man to trust me enough to accept whatever I decide. My whole talk about wanting to get to know the man on a much deeper level, wanting to know about his fears and needs, dreams and hopes is of course a two way street. I am offering all that to him as well. He can see for himself that I am not some insane maniac but a loving and caring woman. And I do not want him to give up his life for me or for the relationship. I want him to continue to do whatever he is doing in life, and be successful in doing it. But then, sometimes and within the relationship, I want him to do exactly as I tell him. And if I should hand out a bitter pill indeed, I expect him to swallow it.

I wonder how much sense -if any- it would make, to start negotiations with a submissive man in the domestic discipline sector. As far as I understand, there will be elements that the man will not like. At least that is what "wdspoone" over at "Yes Ma`am" says. And I will just use him as an expert witness :-)

Punishment and discipline is not supposed to be fun for my man. And I do not believe in sending mixed signals. If I am intending to discipline him, he will know for sure that the time coming will not be for his pleasure.

So in a way it all leads to the question, if the man is able and willing to trust me enough.


  1. Tina:

    This sounds like a healthy attitude. I hope you meet someone you connect with and who accepts your authority and the lifestyle you have chosen. If it is clear in your mind that what you want is not open to negotiation, he will have to learn to trust that what you want is best for him and your relationship. Clarity can be a beautiful thing.

  2. I don't think it's a matter of negotiations. It's a matter of finding out what the man is willing to do, and what he is not, and then for you to decide if there's sufficient agreement. e.g. spanking might be fine with him, but other punishments not. Going down on you when you request it might be fine, but not unless it's a prelude to full ntercourse.

  3. You learn by dating and hinting what you want. As you pitch it out; if he picks up on it you know wether or not this is mr. right. I pitched to aj what I did not want and he picked-up on it and pitched what he did want which led to our having a wonderful relationship.
    I have done more in our 20 years together than I ever did with my first husband in 25 years together.

  4. Tina-
    I believe you are right on target. I have been into the FLR concept for many years and my thoughts and ideas have evolved quite a bit over the 50 plus years that this has been a part of my psychological make up.

    I think many men who are into a FLR don't want their spouses to allow negotiations about discipline or punishment but rather for her to administer it on her own terms. At least thats what works for my Lady and me.

  5. Tina,

    I'm enjoying reading your blog; it's fascinating observing your thought process, as you refine your thoughts and feelings about the relationship you want.

    I hope you find what you're looking for.


  6. This is a step farther than I could go. Ultimately I am responsible for my own wellbeing, and I see no negotiations and no limits as neglecting that responsibility.

    Clearly there's some tension between being under the authority of someone else and also having some say-so over what the authority figure can do. But I've always considered that to be a necessary result of two adults having a disciplinary relationship.

  7. “I want my man to trust me enough to accept whatever I decide”.

    Dear Ma’am,

    This will be problem hardly if you choose from subs there is a natural thing for them.
    They did not like to trumpeting abroad their desires although, to come across them not heavy. They are rather many people (at least 10-15 %) the selecting will be easy because of this. You will be surprised how much will be visible for alpha male among them.


  8. Yes, it's seems quite logical to maintain a "no negotiating" attitude and approach, particularly within a DD or dominant/submissive relationship. ;) As a dominant woman, a submissive partner should be prepared to accept your decisions and discipline, trusting your judgment and authority completely. In fact, that should very much be the type of arrangement he would welcome and long for....including those "bitter pills" he would often have to swallow (a perfectly chosen metaphor....melt) I'm sure you'd agree that communication is important and I sense that you would show a genuine interest in hearing your partners desires while, at the same time, not allowing him to dictate things or to "top from the bottom", so to speak. And although you might not desire ALL of the same activities, the core interests would, of course, have to be there. Finding that compatibility and level of trust is what is most difficult to find. And I admire you for remaining true to your heart and what you truly desire. Most important, the trust you mention is what would make your relationship so strong and unbreakable. It would, indeed, be the foundation of a truly wonderful DD relationship, in my humble opinion.


  9. Ms. Tina,

    First of all I would like to thank you for sharing your experiences and thoughts on this wonderful blog.

    I`ve been following your blog for a while, and would really like to correspond more closely with you.
    What you`re writing about is very interesting to me (for lack of a better word to describe it)

    Just like you`ve i`ve been lurking around the "scene" for a significant amount of time.

    To tell you a little more about myself, i`m a man in my 30`s trying to figure out how to approach the challenge of finding a dominant woman I could develop a fullfilling relationship with.

    Of course, finding one is only half the challenge - for this kind of relationship to work I believe the partners should have, or at least develop over time a deep love and affection for each other.

    I`m writing this as a comment on the blog since i`m falling into the category "new men wanting to make contact" : )

    And just like you i`m having a hard time trying to figure out what such a relationship should or would look like.

    I would therefore love to exchange experiences and thoughts with you regarding these matters.

    May I write you an e-mail?

    - BRN

  10. Hi everybody,

    it´s interesting to see how more and more people comment on my writing. I won´t comment on the comments much, because actually I am the one learning here. I do not have any solutions.

    Things in my life have been a bit crazy lately. And now I need to go to Berlin tomorrow for another lawyerish event, so I am pretty busy these days. Won´t have any chance to write much before next week.

    As far as the "is it ok if I write you?" goes: I changed my rules of procedure here ;-) Hey, thats my prerogative!

    Basically the new approach is: write me if you want to,however I can not promise to write back.

  11. Tina:

    The only thing to negotiate is whether the man wants to be your sub.

    If he says yes, you tell him you're going to call all the shots and his role is to obey.

    Of course, he is free to leave but then he wasn't a good fit for you anyway.

    But most male subs want to serve a strong woman. They don't want to make decisions. They want you to be in charge and do to them whatever you want.

    Your only problem is finding that sub.

    Btw, I know you said you don't have much time to write but could you give more detail about the big house you live in. How big and how many adults are in it and does that make it tough on your privacy.


  12. "Of course, he is free to leave but then he wasn't a good fit for you anyway."

    This is a key point. In a relationship between adults, either partner can leave. Children can not abandon their relationship with their parents (at least not easily), students can't shrug off the authority of their teachers, same with the military, or prisons. In all of those examples force can be used to maintain the relationship, so there's no place for negotiation; authority dictates.

    Since adults can unilaterally end a relationship, I think negotiation does have a place. It's just a conversation about where people draw their limits, and it's sensible to come to that understanding in a conversation where there's little on the line and both partners are willing to listen and make concessions, instead of finding out exactly where those limits are in the middle of a hotly contested argument with each partner emotionally invested in their respective position.

    A few months ago I read about a couple where the dominant amputated the nipple of the submissive. That's so extreme, it seems absurd. But I wonder what the submissives who don't want to set boundaries would do if that was put on the table. My guess is that some hard and fast limits would suddenly appear. And if that's the case, couldn't we say that the sub had been placing conditions on the dominant all along, they just hadn't been articulated? The same criticism could be made of submissives who wouldn't pick a dominant that would do such a thing. That too is a condition hiding in another form.

  13. Everyone has conditions, subs, dom/mes, switches.

    But in my experience very few people want total domination, and quite a few tops/dommes/whatever can't be trusted with total power. It often leads to abuse or lack of respect. After all, if (not in some arranged way for a limited amount of time) I'm totally controlling zir life, of what use is zie on this Earth? After all, totally caring for someone means worrying about their needs (even if I could give a shit less about their wants) and that would get tiring after a time.

    Just my take on it.


  14. I can say one thing for sure:
    I am far away from wanting total power exchange. No need to worry about that as far as I am concerned!

  15. Tina,

    I agree with what others have written that you are going about this with the right kind of mindset.

    I have a feeling that you will find it more difficult to find a man that you will connect with on a personal level than one who is willing to go along with whatever form of dominance you choose to pursue.

    The hard part of finding the right D/s lover is that you are trying to connect on a personal level as well as on a kink level. In some cases you may enjoy their personality but you aren't a good "fit" in terms of the D/s aspects. In other cases you might fit perfectly with the D/s but their personality might not be to your liking.

    D/s dating often ends up being a lot like the barter system in that you are searching for a double-coincidence of wants: they offer what you want, you offer what they want. At times it's a bit less romantic than some more traditional dating but you tend to get a feeling for whether or not you mesh well rather quickly.

    I agree with what FD said about finding the right sub first and then having them follow your lead. That's not to say that a sub shouldn't have some hard limits, as having hard limits that are reasonable and responsible often indicate their head is in the right place.

    Dominant Women generally have an advantage since there's far more submissive men out there but at the same time, you might eventually get frustrated by weeding through a lot of men trying to find the right one.

    Based upon what you have written so far, it's likely that you will prefer a submissive that isn't a masochist if you want discipline and punishment to be unpleasant.

  16. Mrs. Right and Mr. right don't have to do negotiations. They are like minded and open to explore those things they differ. The sub is trusting enough, cause he feels that his Lady never would destroy or damage him in a bad way. That's the way true dominance and submission are made. Thats why you cant jump into that lifestyle, but have to develop it step by step.

    Thinking about abuse and destructive behavior will never allow someone to live that lifestyle, it will lead to games. Not my cup of tea.

  17. From personal experience his_obedience is totally correct. Tina, once you have started your relationship with your newly found man it will be a journey both of you will take. On that journey trust and a strong bond will grow between you and your "non conditional" requirement will occur completely naturally.

    When I first married my wife she demanded that I be subserviant to her wishes but after almost seven years of being married we have only recently got to the place that you describe as your goal.

    The one thing i would like to say is that there is the ideal partner for each of out there. Keep looking and keep putting out the right signals and your perfect man will appear